The ZIZO Effect

Ep 2 Exploring the Diverse Applications of Gamification

• ZIZO Technologies Inc. • Season 1 • Episode 2

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In this episode of the ZIZO Effect podcast, Andrew Reimers and Jimmy Chebat take a deep dive into the world of gamification across various industries. From fitness to language learning to your morning cup of coffee, gamification strategies are transforming the way we engage with products and services.

The discussion begins with an exploration of Peloton's innovative approach to fitness and how they leverage community engagement, goal setting, rewards, and real-time feedback to motivate users towards their fitness goals. Andrew and Jimmy share personal anecdotes and insights into how gamification has impacted their own fitness journeys.

Transitioning to language learning, they analyze the success of Duolingo, highlighting its streaks, levels, leaderboards, and personalized learning paths as key elements driving user engagement and progression. They also discuss the broader implications of gamification in education and skill development.

Moving on to Starbucks, the duo examines how the coffee giant has incorporated gamification into its rewards program to enhance customer loyalty and drive sales. They delve into the strategic use of data collection, personalized offers, and incentives to incentivize customer behavior and increase brand affinity.

Throughout the episode, Andrew and Jimmy explore the multifaceted benefits of gamification, from fostering community and motivation to facilitating data-driven decision-making for businesses. Join them as they uncover the game-changing impact of gamification across industries and its role in shaping consumer experiences.

Tune in to the ZIZO Effect podcast to level up your understanding of gamification and its transformative power in today's world.

Andrew Reimers:

Welcome to the ZIZO Effect podcast, where we talk about all things gamified. In today's episode, we are going to take a deeper dive into gamification across industries. We will identify the ways industry powerhouses such as Peloton, Starbucks and Duolingo use gamification to drive their product success. Get ready, it's game time. Hello, hello, welcome to another episode of the ZIZO Effect podcast. My name is Andrew J Reimers. With me is our in-house gamification expert, Mr Jimmy Chebat. Jimmy, do you know, one time I bowled 23 strikes in a row.

Jimmy Chebat:

Holy cow that's. I don't think I may have done 23 gutter balls in a row.

Andrew Reimers:

Wow, touche.

Jimmy Chebat:

I mean, if I'm going to match you here, I was MVP in my street hockey league when I was 10 years old, is that?

Andrew Reimers:

right a sanctioned league?

Jimmy Chebat:

I mean yes, sanctioned yes.

Andrew Reimers:

I guess, if you want to use that term, okay.

Jimmy Chebat:

It's a street hockey league. Yeah, it's not ice hockey.

Andrew Reimers:

That's awesome. No, it's great to be here again with you, jimmy. You know the response and the feedback from episode one has been so great. A lot of people are interested in gamification and, as we always do and always will, we're going to start our episode with a game that we like to call name the game. Now for this segment, our wonderful producers backstage, emma and Alex, are going to be playing us a song from a video game, and it's up to us to see who can come up with the game first.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, okay, so we're going to play two songs. Well, we are, and let's remember, this one's just for you and I, this one's just for us. Okay, the first episode, if you guys remember, too easy, we called it a draw, called it a draw.

Andrew Reimers:

We are going to keep score. We're both 00 and one.

Jimmy Chebat:

That's gamification. It is I mean, not everybody wins a prize here, right?

Andrew Reimers:

So well, in the first episode, yes, but hey, sitting here with you is my participation, trophy Jimmy.

Jimmy Chebat:

We've got some trophies back here. I think one of them had your name on it. It does three times.

Andrew Reimers:

No, but you're absolutely right. We're going to be doing a live guest and then we are going to give a chance to our audience to participate as well. Okay, and we're going to play a second song and if they can name the game, they win a prize. They do win a prize, yes, and would you like to tell them what is the prize?

Jimmy Chebat:

Yes, we'll go back to the same prize as in episode one. We won't let the first person win twice. But this beautifully crafted ZIZO hat if you can zoom in there, it's amazing it's got our ZIZO logo. It's not over-branded.

Andrew Reimers:

Show me the inside. Show me the inside the inside there.

Jimmy Chebat:

I don't know if you can see it. It's game time. It's game time. The logo on the back here as well. I don't want to oversell it. It's a great hat. I think whoever wins it's going to enjoy it, so why don't we get started? Let's get the first game out of the way first.

Andrew Reimers:

Emma, alex, let's hear it, Do we hit?

Jimmy Chebat:

a buzzer. We need buzzers, don't we? You got the answer I can see it in your eyes. I do. I remember this one. I know there were multiple versions of it, but it's Tetris, right? No, it wasn't.

Andrew Reimers:

Is it Tetris? I'm not giving you the answer.

Jimmy Chebat:

No, yes.

Andrew Reimers:

Yes, all right, all right Okay.

Jimmy Chebat:

I got confused for a second. I thought it was a different game.

Andrew Reimers:

Let me just say there was only one version of Tetris Let me just say I could see it in your eyes. If this was named that tune, you would have had it in one note. I definitely had it in about three notes, but I'll give you the win on this one.

Jimmy Chebat:

All right, one, you're one-oh-one, we will have a buzzer, so that way we know who gets to get to it or just yell it out.

Andrew Reimers:

That's awesome. Did you see? Recently, for the first time ever, a 13-year-old caused Tetris on NES to crash? Yes, he got so far in and the game couldn't handle it anymore? And he's the first human being in history to do it.

Jimmy Chebat:

That's actually quite amazing. I mean, when did that come out, that game?

Andrew Reimers:

Oh gosh, that was an arcade game in maybe late 70s. We'll have somebody fact check this.

Jimmy Chebat:

I think the big thing with that game it was is it the hand, the Game Boy right, because I remember playing it as a handheld it was the game that came with the Game Boy when it first came out However.

Andrew Reimers:

Tetris pre-existed, the Game Boy for maybe a decade.

Jimmy Chebat:

I mean, I know I love playing it, but it was when it was in my hand, when you can play it anyways. That's a really big turning point in gaming is when it became handheld, when you weren't tethered to a TV screen or a game console, where you had to sit in front of a TV where you can bring it with you wherever you wanted. Really, the only limitation is the battery life.

Andrew Reimers:

Yeah, four AA batteries maybe about 45 minutes of playing time back in the day, but we loved it as a kid.

Jimmy Chebat:

I think I mentioned it in my first episode. I have five siblings. We used to fight a lot over that game and any handheld game, because, man, my mom had a hard time keeping six of us quiet. The games were one of the ways that she kept us occupied at least I wouldn't say quiet. But anyways, we got a second song. We have a second song, a second game.

Andrew Reimers:

Yes, we're not allowed to say the name, even if we know the answer. So I want to remind you, but I have a feeling it'll spark some memories and we can have discussion. But no given away the answer this time, like we did last week.

Jimmy Chebat:

All right, we didn't give away, we just gave some clues. So hopefully you don't need any clues. But go ahead, emma, today in that game.

Andrew Reimers:

You know what's funny about this? If people are looking closely, this game is literally in our room right now.

Jimmy Chebat:

Wow, that's okay. So you are giving hints, you just?

Andrew Reimers:

I giving hints, I'm just not giving spoilers.

Jimmy Chebat:

Wow. So really focus in. I don't know if our cameraman wants to kind of get a really good view will will show all every angle here. So you get an idea. Hopefully it's in, hopefully it's in the scene it needs oh, it is, yeah, it is. All right, so I'm going to assume it's somewhere in here. Another big hint?

Andrew Reimers:

Yes, Absolutely, guys, remember. Yeah, please go ahead. Drop your answers on our socials, whether that be Instagram, linkedin, tiktok, youtube, find us at playzizo, or leave comments. And wherever you get your podcast, whether that be Apple podcast, spotify or YouTube- yeah, don't forget about our website, wwwplayzizocom.

Jimmy Chebat:

You're right.

Andrew Reimers:

Yeah, I always forget about the website. Yeah, it's old school.

Jimmy Chebat:

I know it is, it is but let's transition one Sure.

Andrew Reimers:

No, you're right, that is old school. You know, jimmy, we talked last episode about so many different facets of our lives that are touched by gamification and there was one example that you used in particular that really stuck with me and I have a feeling stuck with a lot of our listeners, and I'm hoping that you'll be able to dive a little bit more into this and that was the success of Peloton. And basically, you know, I what I want to ask you, as our gamification expert, is what did they do to change the game in fitness?

Jimmy Chebat:

There's a lot there, but let me start with maybe a story, or at least ask the question. I mean, how many of you guys work out Right? Right, I mean exercise, fitness has been. It's a challenge for everybody to commit to until I think there's a hump that you get over around a six week period. If you do it consistently, starts to become part of your lifestyle, right? If you do it consistently for a year, it's definitely embedded in your day to day. But imagine going to the gym by yourself. You know and trying to be, and you know again January 1st we talked about this last time how everybody makes that New Year's resolution. How does it stick, right? So imagine going January 1st by yourself and then you got to, you got to motivate yourself to get there on the second day and the third day and the fourth day and get past February 1st, right? So when you go to the gym, it's it's a lot easier when you go with a partner.

Jimmy Chebat:

I have the benefit and the ability to work out with a trainer. It's a luxury and really the reason why I do is because I wouldn't leave my office if I didn't. I'd love work, but you know when you, when they, when he gives you a goal, say, hey, get up there and do 10 push ups for me if, when I get to around 7, 8, I start getting exhausted and I'm struggling to get to the 9th and then finishing up the 10th and I'm down after 10. But if I'm sitting there with a partner and we're going side by side and we're saying let's see who could do the most pull ups, I'm being driven by how much he's doing and how tired he looks, and so I keep going. There are no limits and I'm way past 10 each and every time. So it's that community engagement. The leaderboards right that when you see somebody that is doing better than you, it's going to push you to do better, right. So it's. It's not just about the competition, but it's also a sense of community, that you're part of something. So community engagement, I would put.

Jimmy Chebat:

That as one of the, the ways that they've successfully built that brand. Goal setting. Again, we talked about getting 10. Most of us can get to 10, but what is the next goal going to be? Is it always going to be 10 or we're going to shoot for 11 next time or for 12? You know, users can set their fitness goals and with the app. I believe they continuously push you, so that you don't plateau, so that you're not sitting idle and constantly doing the same thing. There are milestones and progression and so to enhance that motivation capacity, but one of the most effective tools of gamification, it's that extrinsic motivators rewards recognition, right? So winning badges, you know that's literally. I mean, it's a digital badge. It's not like they ship you something to your house and you're walking around with it and everybody regularly. Oh, look at Andrew, he's got a Peloton badge, big chain, hanging down.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, I mean, but on the app it is. When you've got those badge, you wear it with a sense of honor, right, and it's a sense of accomplishment. And for people who are just getting into fitness, this is a great way to keep them engaged and keep them motivated is by providing that you know, hey, there's a reward at the end of the tunnel. It's dangling that carrot right and making that carrot reachable and achievable, and when you get it, it's a really good tasting carrot. And then to give you another carrot, it's usually a bigger carrot. So there's no sense of what's the term I'm looking for complacency, right, there's no sense of complacency. And then you know.

Jimmy Chebat:

The last piece I think is really really important is the real time feedback loop. Okay, and that's critical, because if you do something good, usually when you work out, it takes a little bit of time to see the results. It'll, you'll get there, right. But that that feedback loop like hey, you've got to get to here, you've got to beat this person, you're going to get to third place on the leader board or first place on the leaderboard It'll show you in real time how you're doing it. It measures your heart rate, it measures the calories that you've burned. So your goals are going to be achieved and you're going to be calculating, you're going to give a net feedback in real time. So combine all of those and more you know. But those are just a high level things that make Peloton such an amazing brand.

Andrew Reimers:

Yeah, you know, I even I'm not a big workout guy but I do like yoga and there's a I can tell yoga yoga program. DDP yoga is a former pro wrestler actually hurt his back and he couldn't lift weights anymore and he developed this. You know, anybody can look up DDP yoga, you know, on their own time if they want. But thing that I loved that came along with it was the app, because the app could tell when you finished a workout and the video had to play all the way through. And when the video played all the way through, it triggered a game, so that the rewards I was earning every time I completed a workout and made it through the 28 minutes, whatever it was, I got to spend a wheel and got to try to 5x, 10x, 25x.

Andrew Reimers:

My bonus, again, like you're saying, this isn't something physical, I wasn't earning money, but the feeling that I got. You know, post workout I'm already feeling good. My energy is up, you know, endorphins are flowing, everything is good. But then I'm earning rewards on top of it and I'm being padded on the back. So, yes, I look in the mirror. I'm not necessarily happy with the way that I look, but I still feel better because I got to play a game.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, combine those endorphins and endorphins with dopamine. Yeah, it's a killer combo. Yeah, you're absolutely right, and you know our audience too. We'd love to hear your stories. Please comment and tell us if this is relatable. You know, we'd love to hear your story about how, maybe gamification, an app, a wearable device whether it's the Fitbit or the Apple Watch, or an app on your iPhone that help get you over that hump, because again, once you start to see the real results right in body and health and wellness, it becomes intrinsic. Right, it starts to go from extrinsic to intrinsic, but people need that push. It's very effective.

Andrew Reimers:

No, you're right and you know you're. You're talking about making yourself physically well, physically strong. How about keeping yourself mentally sharp? You know we talked about childhood education on the last episode and my son going through the COVID lockdown. You know your kids went through the same thing. But that isn't just for early childhood or childhood education. It also goes along with us as adults. And as important as it is to keep your body fit and keep yourself in shape and eat right and do all the things to keep your body healthy, keeping your mind healthy is just as important. We mentioned Duolingo, the language learning app, as another application that has used gamification to take something that is difficult, to take something that can be mundane, to take something that can be repetitive and make it fun. And I was wondering you know not to steal some of your thunder there, but really, why don't you talk a little bit about Duolingo? You know some of the approaches they took. You know how they're similar to Peloton, maybe, how they're different and really how they found the success they found through gamification.

Jimmy Chebat:

You know I want to say that almost the same exact things, and I'm going to piggyback on top of Duolingo with the recent app that I've been playing and I've actually introduced to my kids. But real quick on Duolingo and learning an app, if anybody's ever tried to learn a new language, it's hard. I mean it's hard putting that work in. I mean, in elementary school, I think, I took French for eight years. I took it for four more years In high school. I took it for a couple of years in college. I can't remember anything. It's really hard to retain and recall and new information, especially in the language that's foreign, right? So you know they use some of the same sort of game mechanics, right?

Jimmy Chebat:

Streaks, points, streaks are really important and people love streaks, which is because it motivates them. I don't want to lose my streak. If you've been putting in the work five days in a row, six days in a row, seven days in a row, 14, 21, 30, you know you get that far and you're getting much, much bigger rewards. You start from the very beginning if you miss a day. So it's a motivational tool that right away, hey, I'm going to go do my work, do my tasks, my lessons, so that way I can do 31 days and you're going to keep going. And it's that consistency that helps people again not only stay engaged with the app, but learn what they're supposed to be learning. Levels, levels, leaderboards. Again, being able to do it with a partner, that community engagement it's a lot easier. And if you've got a partner at home whether it's a family member, you know your significant other to learn a new language together. It's an amazing experience and Duolingo does an amazing job of giving you the mechanics to keep you engaged so that way you don't fall off.

Jimmy Chebat:

I've been doing this for a long time with my kids and some people may criticize it, like they shouldn't need motivation, but I've been rewarding my kids for their report cards. You know, when they come home, we have a point system and then that's that's related to a dollar amount, so you get a very certain grade. You can earn $10, you get even above that. It's up to $20, the biggest reward, but if you get below you can be penalized as well. So we have it both ways. You give your kids bills. Well, I mean, I charge them for a lot of. They have to buy their own things, so I give them many, many.

Jimmy Chebat:

So this is a. It's a different way, you know, for outside of just chores, to to motivate them to do better in school. And you know most people can can debate me on the fact. Hey, they shouldn't need any other motivation. You know it's going to school, go ahead, go back to school. Remember the days that you went to school? I wish I had that additional incentive to hey, if I can get an honor roll, there's an extra bonus for me and that helps them later in life and there's more opportunities for them when they're on the honor roll.

Andrew Reimers:

Yeah, yeah. No, I remember as a kid, but you know I think my mom was using gamification for me in the same way with my report cards, but it was way more out of desperation than anything. It was like please just pass, I'll buy you whatever you want.

Jimmy Chebat:

I agree with you. And if we didn't get on the honor roll, I remember getting punished for getting on the merit roll and it was like and back back then nowadays my, my kids it's like 93 to get on the honor roll, it was 90 for us, they moved the goalpost and you know, thank goodness for us, but I got an 89.5 and I was on the merit. I missed it by a half a point and I got punished for a couple of days and it was really frustrating for me because I thought I did really well but just not good enough. So negative reinforcement is is just as effective as positive reinforcement. So gamification can go both ways. And I mean, in a video game you can lose, right, you lose, and you have to start all the way back from the beginning and some of the games and you know. So, yeah, negative reinforcement is just as good.

Andrew Reimers:

Yeah, you know what I think is really interesting, too with Duolingo that I won't claim to have had any success with it, but I think something that goes along with this as well is really the personalized learning paths, because not everybody does learn the same way. So the principles of gamification and the game mechanics that go into this can cater to individuals based on how they choose to learn and how they want to learn. You know I've seen other, you know plat you platforms and things that that incorporate gamification, that you know you can choose, you know how you want to play, what you want to play, when you want to play, and things like that. So I think that's another really important aspect where it isn't just a one size fits all scenario.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, I mean not every game is successful, right, right. I mean, if you go back and we talk about actual video games ET In the I never played ET.

Andrew Reimers:

Do you hear the story about that?

Jimmy Chebat:

No, what is it?

Andrew Reimers:

Well, it's known as like one of the worst video games ever produced in history, because it was rushed and apparently somewhere there's like hundreds of thousands of copies of it buried in a landfill and there's only a few that exist. But yeah, it's definitely something homework for our audience at home. Look at the ET Video game. It's pretty fascinating stuff.

Jimmy Chebat:

I'm going to have to look it up. Maybe that's why I never played it.

Andrew Reimers:

Probably in a landfill.

Jimmy Chebat:

For me there's one game in particular called Top Gun, and I remember the movie came out and the game came out. I couldn't get past level two. I couldn't figure it out. You had to like re-gas up in the middle of the air and I'm like flying up into the sky and trying to figure out how to get to the next level. So games can be either too easy If you're going through the game super fast, it's not fun, it really isn't fun. You do need a challenge and that challenge has to be incrementally more difficult than the previous levels but it also can't be too difficult, because if you can't get past the level, people are just going to quit. So game design is a critical element of gamification. It's it's it's an art form and it's becoming more and more in demand as, as you, as you can see, the gaming industries is booming, skyrocketing. It's at all time highs. I believe it's a six hundred billion dollar industry, if not a trillion dollar industry. I'll have to do the research and we'll bring that up in another episode.

Andrew Reimers:

Cool. No, you're right. I mean, the possibilities are endless. And you know, I had one kind of funny story, because I talked on the previous episode that I didn't really know what gamification was when I first took the job at ZIZO. I just needed a job and I, you know, I knew you and I, like, I trust this guy. So you know, this is going to be fine.

Andrew Reimers:

He invented something incredible. I've since learned it, you know stems way back to multiple centuries BC, but anyway, you know, we had somebody who got in touch with ZIZO and it was through Duolingo, because he was sitting in an airport and trying to get home. His flight was delayed and delayed, and delayed and canceled, and then his next flight was delayed and he was stuck in the airport for hours, if not days, yeah, and he was decided that he was going to learn language and he pulled up Duolingo, downloaded it, signed up and realized very quickly how good it was, making him feel and he immediately attributed that to the company that he owns. And how could I make this work? But I think the most interesting part was that I don't like traveling. To begin with, if I have the smallest inconvenience in my travels, it ruins my entire year. Yeah.

Jimmy Chebat:

When was the last time you traveled?

Andrew Reimers:

Last time I traveled was in November.

Jimmy Chebat:

Okay, yeah, it's horrible.

Andrew Reimers:

It went pretty smoothly, surprisingly, against all odds, okay. But I think the coolest part about oh, we traveled together, we did yeah, yeah, we got lucky One of the coolest parts about this is that he was stuck in an airport which first world problems. It's up there on the top of the list of terrible experiences, yet he was finding joy, he was energized, he was learning and he was feeling good through a terrible situation, just because of gamification.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, I mean, how rewarding is it to be able to learn a new language? And I don't know if he was alone or if he was with somebody at the time, but it's definitely a distraction, right, when you're dealing with a situation that's obviously not enjoyable. Nobody wants to get stuck in an airport, whether it's you're going to miss a connecting flight, which will delay your travels even further, or you're on your connecting flight, you're trying to get to an event that maybe is scheduled, as most of us really do. That's the purpose of traveling, unless it's for personal pleasure. But that distraction is part of the benefits, right. It could be used and we'll talk about it in future episodes when we get into the workforce gamification.

Andrew Reimers:

So, if you don't mind, jimmy, we're going to switch gears from language apps to lattes. Sound good, sounds good to me. Imagine a coffee shop where your morning caffeine fix earns you more than just a quick pick me up. Could you imagine that? Are you picturing?

Jimmy Chebat:

it in your mind. Yes, sir.

Andrew Reimers:

All right Good when every purchase rewards you with points, and that's the experience Starbucks set up with their reward system. But why would a coffee giant like Starbucks, who's already the most successful coffee business in the entire world, add elements of gamification, and what does it do for their brand?

Jimmy Chebat:

So why would they do it? I mean, that's an easy one. If they've studied gamification, if they've seen the impact of gamification on other brands and the effectiveness of gamification, of course, why wouldn't you do? It would be the better question, right? But what benefits does it give them and what's its purpose Is a different question altogether, and of course, a big part of that is customer loyalty. How do I get people coming back for more? I don't know about you, but brands come and go, right, you know you. Take a look at Best Buy. Best Buy wasn't always the leader in electronic goods, right? Circuit City, radio Shack, you know there's a bunch, and if you don't adapt to using the newest and great stuff, you're gonna be a fly by night operation pretty soon. Not that it was. Circuit City was a fly by night. It was a big company. Well, no, but you're right.

Andrew Reimers:

I mean, I think you immediately bring to mind for me a blockbuster video. Yeah, they could have changed with the times. They could have gone to a digital age. However, netflix is still here and blockbuster video. I use my father-in-law's blockbuster video card to chop up my weed. No, I'm just kidding.

Jimmy Chebat:

I'm gonna give you more reasons as to why they would do it. Of course, data collection right. So if you got people coming in and it's not just Starbucks that's doing it, all your grocery stores are doing it. They've been doing it for a while they give you that bonus club card where you can have savings. Really, they're collecting data, they're looking at your habits, they're comparing your habits with everybody else's habits. They're identifying the peak times where they can inflate prices or the, more importantly, actually Las Vegas does that.

Jimmy Chebat:

I don't know if you notice in your hotel room, if you've got the ones where in the refrigerator and you take it off, they know, on Saturday mornings and Sunday mornings, after a long weekend, they inflate the price of a water to $20. And then every other time it's a lot cheaper. You don't know this, they don't tell you, but that's what they do. But Starbucks does it where it's not necessarily inflating, but they're looking at the times that are slower and they'll give you double your points, triple your points. Come in and buy it between this time and this time.

Jimmy Chebat:

Restaurants do that as well. What do you think? Happy hour is right. Let's get people in after work, because let's not let them go home, have them get a pit stop in. It's not really our busy time, so we'll give away two for one. So data collection is a big part of why also the benefit for them to do so. Ultimately, the output is increasing their sales, getting more sales, and that's why they continue to be a successful business and they continue to grow and add more stores across the entire world.

Andrew Reimers:

No, it's fascinating stuff. I mean, it really is. And again, I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna keep saying it there are so many elements of gamification in life that I never even thought of. There are so many ways that I am earning rewards and earning loyalty points and earning all those things. But the funny part is, when you get those rewards and those bonus points and you feel loyal right, you feel loyal to that brand like, wow, they're investing in me, they want me to be here, so I wanna be here to support them. And that's how you become, you know. Oh, you're a Tim Horton's guy. Well, I'm a Starbucks guy, and let me tell you why and I'm gonna give you all the reasons and become a brand ambassador all because I've been spending extra money, because I get rewards every time I do, and it's just a fascinating thing for me.

Jimmy Chebat:

But it robs us of variation, right, a variety I mean we don't explore anymore. So I mean that tells you how effective this tool is to stay with one type of cup of coffee. Of course there's the other part, the fixation on the flavor and all that stuff. But I mean, if you have an opportunity to go someplace else, you second guess it right and you say, well, I don't wanna lose out on the rewards. I'm this close to getting my free cup of coffee. So again going back to that episode with Elaine Benes in the show Seinfeld she worked so hard to get those punches, you just don't wanna miss out on the reward.

Andrew Reimers:

Well, and I think the joke is even like their sand wiches aren't even that good yeah.

Jimmy Chebat:

Very true. Yeah, I forgot that part. Yeah.

Andrew Reimers:

No, that's great, and I'll just again an awesome glimpse. I mean, we are just skimming the surface of gamification and where it is in the world. We talked retail, we talked education, we talked fitness. Again, there's still an area of our lives that I wanna dive into, however, in our next episode, we'll look into why engagement is not just a game but a crucial strategy in retaining talent. We'll explore the causes behind employee turnover, how gamification can be a game changer in workplace engagement and the strategies to implement this innovative approach effectively. So stay tuned, listeners, as we continue to explore the powerful impact of gamification in our lives. Get ready, it's game time.

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Andrew Reimers

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Jimmy Chebat

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