The ZIZO Effect

Balancing Collections, Career, and Passion with Bryan Williams

• ZIZO Technologies Inc. • Season 2 • Episode 2

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Welcome to Season 2 of The ZIZO Effect!
This season, we’re exploring diverse perspectives from agents, managers, and executives in the call center industry, diving into the unique insights and experiences they’ve gained along the way.

Episode Overview:
In this episode, we sit down with Bryan Williams, a collections agent at Great Lakes Processing Services and passionate musician, as he shares his journey and how he balances a full-time career in collections with his passion for music. Bryan opens up about the importance of workplace culture and how having a creative outlet has helped him stay positive and motivated.

We explore the grind of working in collections, the challenges of staying engaged, and the mental health aspects of a high-pressure job. Bryan also shares his insights on autonomy, leadership, and the role of incentives in motivating employees.

This episode is packed with real-life stories, practical advice, and valuable takeaways for anyone looking to find balance between their professional and personal lives. Get ready for an insightful conversation—It’s Game Time!

Chapters:
0:00 - Episode Introduction and Overview
1:40 - Bryan’s Personal and Professional Journey
8:14 - Defining Corporate Culture
16:30 - Leadership Styles and Mentorship
22:20 - Mental Health and Work-Life Balance
39:49 - Engagement and Distractions in the Workplace
47:34 - Compensation, Bonuses, and Incentives


Guest Information:
Bryan Williams - Collections Agent at Great Lakes Processing Services.
Connect with Bryan on social media:

  • Personal: @bryanwilliamsmuso
  • Band: @icecreamsocialband
  • Band: @deadwolfofficial
  • Band: @stephenbmusic



Engage with Us:
Don’t forget to subscribe, like, and comment to join the conversation. Check out our other episodes and follow us on our social media pages:


Don’t miss this engaging episode filled with personal stories, expert advice, and actionable insights. Tune in now to The ZIZO Effect—It's Game Time!

Andrew J. Reimers:

Welcome back to he Zizzo Effect podcast. Season two is all about perspectives. We'll be exploring the minds of agents, managers and executives from call centers to hear their unique insights and experiences. This season we're uncovering the stories that shape their work and the valuable lessons they've learned. Today we have Bran Williams, an experienced call center agent, who's here to share his journey and the insights he's gained along the way. It's an engaging conversation that you won't want to miss.

Jimmy Chebat:

Get ready, it's game time. Hello everybody, welcome The ZIZO Effect podcast. I am Jimmy Chebat, founder and CEO of ZIZO Technologies and also the host of the ZIZO Effect podcast.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I am Andrew J Reimers, co-host of he Zizzo Effect podcast and director of customer success here at Zizzo Technologies.

Jimmy Chebat:

Andrew, season two. We're excited to be here. We've got a new format and part of our format is we're going to have guests in studio as well, also as remote, and we are proud to have Bryan Williams, an agent at a call center and fortunate to be one of our customers for ZIZO Technologies. Bryan, welcome to the ZIZO Effect podcast.

Bryan Williams :

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jimmy Chebat:

Bryan, before we jump into the podcast here, why don't you tell us a little about yourself personally? Yeah, absolutely.

Bryan Williams :

So originally I'm from Long Island, new York, and I went to Fredonia State for school, moved up here about eight years ago, so not exactly a Buffalo native, but I would say I'm definitely a Bills fan now. Nice, yeah. So I started working for collections in the call center probably about five years ago, and what you guys started, ZIZO when 2020.

Jimmy Chebat:

2020,. Yeah, 2020 is when we started.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, so we've been baiting that for what? Almost four years now, almost four years.

Jimmy Chebat:

Well, we released in 2021. Right so?

Bryan Williams :

about three years that we've been working on it. So, yeah, I'm a local musician here in Buffalo, nice, and so I do that full-time, while also working full-time for my job, obviously, that we'll be talking about on this podcast. Hey, why?

Andrew J. Reimers:

don't you name? Drop some of your bands here, I've seen you. Yeah, sure You've been ingrained in the Buffalo music scene. I love what you do. You know I'm a fan. I've walked many miles in the sun and shown up very sweaty just to come hear you sing, to come hear you sing.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, I know, I always appreciate seeing you in the crowd. So there's a band called Ice Cream Social. That's kind of like what I you know, that's my little project that I write about.

Andrew J. Reimers:

She's standing in your eyes.

Bryan Williams :

She sees you in the other side of the world and not the guy that she thinks she needs to be. But I don't think it's for me.

Andrew J. Reimers:

You gotta love me and you don't peel off the smoking cigarettes.

Bryan Williams :

Then I also played a band called Dead Wolf and I also played a band by the name of Stephen Babcock. It's his own solo project that we go on tour. I was actually just out of town for three days, so good to be back. Yeah, a busy man, full-time music and also a full-time job.

Jimmy Chebat:

Proud to have you on here. We're happy to have you here here. We're happy to have you here, and part of our season two format is again to get perspectives from different levels within the call center agencies at the agent level, at the mid-management level and then at the executive level, and we're going to talk about a whole list of topics here today. Well, before we get into that, you know your career. You just you gave us a little bit about when you started in the call center. You went to fredonia state. What did you major in in fredonia?

Bryan Williams :

um, so I have a degree in business administration, okay, and then I concentrated in music industry and I also have a minor in music, so I did take a lot of those. You know standard business courses. You know macroeconomics not statistics.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Head of hair up there, yeah, no, no, yeah, there's something inside too. I like it.

Jimmy Chebat:

There's a very expensive degree that I'm still paying for, and I like the beard, I mean, there's no grays in there yet. No, not yet.

Bryan Williams :

I think I have like one patch right here.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, any kids. No, no kids Married Relationship.

Bryan Williams :

Not married. Yeah, adorable. I just actually got a puppy recently. He's four months. What kind of dog? He's a purebred border collie, nice, so he's wild. He's the smartest dog I've ever seen in my life.

Jimmy Chebat:

I don't want to say just as much work as kids, but they are a lot of responsibility.

Bryan Williams :

It's proving to be, especially at that early age.

Jimmy Chebat:

So into your career? When did you decide to get into the call center?

Bryan Williams :

well, it's. It's funny, actually, in tangent to being a musician. That's kind of the reason why, because I came here, um, and I was kind of just working like mostly in hospitality, okay, so I was just, I was serving and doing catering, um, and then I stopped for a while because I really wanted to challenge myself to be a full-time musician, um, so from that part point, excuse me I kind of realized it wasn't really financially feasible, I think.

Jimmy Chebat:

Andrew has a little. Yeah, Andrew definitely can relate.

Bryan Williams :

So I had a friend who was working in another call center and he actually was the manager of it at the old place, across the street. Manager of it, um, at the old place and across the street, um, and I just I knew I needed a full-time job. So that's kind of like what swung me into getting that and asking for the position. I didn't, I knew nothing about it at all. Okay, you know, getting trained and everything. That was my first experience ever, 2018.

Jimmy Chebat:

Okay so my first year? Yeah, and you've been working since 2018?

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, yeah actually it's been pretty accommodating to being a musician as well, as long as you kind of say what you need.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Everybody I've worked for has been pretty accommodating for that it's so fun hearing your story and getting to know you, because I like to joke. I mean, you are me 12 years ago.

Bryan Williams :

I've kind of always thought that yeah.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I was working hard doing collections actually for Jimmy and a tax season in 2012. And those bonuses actually paid for my first record, which was incredible, and I was able to put out a full length record without going into debt. And I just watch what you do and see what you do, man, and I admire it. You know, traveling, touring, gigging out every night, getting those residencies like it is hard to make money in Buffalo playing music, but when you can find that job, that is solid and people are willing to work with you. When you, you show up, you do your job well, absolutely, it's amazing, uh, how they're willing to. You know, let you out a little bit early. You know, give you this day off and uh, it's, it's great, I'm so glad to hear that you're successful doing it and see how successful you are.

Bryan Williams :

I appreciate that. Like I said, the accommodation is a huge thing that I'm super appreciative for. I think if you just talk about your needs with the people you work for and do your job well, like you said, you can have the best of both worlds.

Jimmy Chebat:

Musicians, especially early on in your careers. You guys are grinders.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, you got to, you got to work hard and I think that work ethic translates into kind of the things you do, especially if it offers you an opportunity to pursue your career.

Jimmy Chebat:

So, you know, as, on the other side of the equation, as an executive and you know, having hired and managed an operation, you know we you know, at least within my organizations definitely appreciate hard work, sure, and you know we're willing to give a little bit more, without compromising our policies.

Jimmy Chebat:

Today we're going to be talking about a host of topics. You know, one of the things that you were just talking about kind of that work ethic kind of leans itself into one of our topics, which is culture. You know, kind of that work ethic kind of leans itself into one of our topics, which is culture. And back in my day, when I was running an operation, I tried to create a culture of accountability, sure, and you know, when you do some of our research, there's a study out there that reported that 94% of executives and 88% of employees believe that distinct corporate culture is important to the success of the business and what keeps people there. And I just want to kind of get your perspective in terms of what do you think culture is? What does culture mean to you?

Bryan Williams :

Well, there's a couple of different ideas about culture. You could be talking about food, for example. Is culture Within the workspace? I think that's expectation to incentive. What do you mean by that? I mean like if you do a good job, then you get things out of it, okay. And then there's kind of like the aspect of getting again about incentives.

Jimmy Chebat:

Are you defining the culture that you feel that you guys have?

Bryan Williams :

Yes, I'm trying to define, kind of like what we have in our office now, like it's, it's a, we'll zoom out a little bit.

Jimmy Chebat:

Okay, zoom out all right, and let's just try to define culture in general, like what does culture mean to you, like as a musician? Let's start there, okay, because I think that you know from a passion standpoint, that's more meaningful. What sort of culture and feeling do you want from your crowd, from your concerts that you're throwing? What do you want people to feel and react to?

Bryan Williams :

Okay. Well, I definitely want people to be having a good time. I want them to be happy. I want them to be thinking for themselves. If you can make a room full of like drunk and high people think something, okay, you're doing something right.

Jimmy Chebat:

So they have to be high as well. No, like I said I'm a big fan.

Bryan Williams :

Jim Morrison. Jim Morrison said that Okay, but yeah, I guess it's. You know everybody should feel together. Okay, you know music Together. You know music is one of those kind of like infinite languages that anybody can speak. So I think if you're really performing with your heart out, you will create that culture within the room. I guess you call it a vibe. You know there's an energy and yeah, I guess everybody culturally should be happy.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Well, I think even more to that point, especially when we talk about the Buffalo music scene. I think that there's culture within the scene when you see bands supporting other bands. You know how it is, it's very incestual you even mentioned well, yeah, I'm in three bands and I know the people I play with are in multiple bands and I make sure I go support them in their other endeavors, along with that Everybody's playing with each other.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Exactly the culture, even within the scene. And the reason I bring that up is because I'm very ingrained in a sense in the culture at your call center where you work, and I know that a collections floor is a unique place. We've talked about that in our last season, even the culture shock you had when you first got into the space. You hear some shit. You definitely hear some shit, but similarly to the Buffalo music scene where you know support breeds more support. I see that in what you guys are doing because you're willing to help each other, whether it's helping you know second talk off, you know closing deals, answering calls and things you know know not to. I don't want to describe the culture at the call center for you, but I see a noticeable difference when, when you do, you have that same energy and it just breeds more of that same energy and I think you know you guys do a really good job of that.

Jimmy Chebat:

I think so too. Let me, let me ask the question. I mean, one of our questions that we want to try to find out is what aspects of your corporate culture do you find to be most positive? You just mentioned one, but from your perspective, what is the most positive aspect of the culture that you guys have cultivated?

Bryan Williams :

I think the lack of micromanaging is a huge part of it. The responsibility and confidence well, giving us the responsibility to do our jobs well and our bosses to have the confidence in doing that job without, you know, having to audit our files all the time. I mean, sometimes, yeah, it does happen like you'll see a dip in numbers or dip in production. You got to find out, you know, you got to zoom in, like you know. But like the truth is like having that freedom, I think is a huge part of the culture, of why we only have what I think nine collectors. Okay, and you know we put up huge numbers, yeah, and there's not much maintenance, I think, from the up top to have to like get us to do that yeah, you know, what do you think contributes to that?

Jimmy Chebat:

why? Is freedom? Okay, that's so just that.

Bryan Williams :

Self-motivation, yeah, like you, you come in in, you do your job and you can leave. Yeah, you know, you take an extra five minutes on a break. You're not going to be penalized, right, you know, like that's definitely part of our culture there.

Jimmy Chebat:

So some autonomy to again. As long as you're getting your work done, yeah, we don't really care, you know, and that's something that I do believe in as well, which is if you're getting your work done and what I need, you know what's expected of you. Yeah, you do it in two hours or five hours or eight hours, but even also, on the other side, if it will take you ten hours, sure you know it. There has to be a give and take on both sides of that. You don't want to take advantage of that, of course.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, that's a thing, too, where you know you'll see that in collections specifically, like there have been a lot of people in and out of our office besides for the core people that you know I've been there for the longest, like I'm definitely one of the oldest veterans who's actually like been through a lot of people in and out the overturn and you can kind of almost tell immediately when somebody's just not going to last. They just don't have that motivation to do their job. Well, they'll take complete advantage of that and they'll just sit there or not make enough calls or whatever it is.

Jimmy Chebat:

But they end up leaving. So I have a strong belief that people are an important part of the culture we try to cultivate the right people that have the same values and the same work ethics, because they're part of what would I call the pot of soup analogy, which I've shared before. They're an ingredient in that, so you're an ingredient in your pot of soup, in your culture. What do you do to contribute to your culture?

Bryan Williams :

um, staying positive is a big one. Okay, because I think it can be a little rough making phone calls all day and you know some days you have a lot of results, sometimes you turn no results and you know that's a thing that's been talked about in meetings before because some people you know, who are expected to hit high numbers, have a zero day and then they're just like complaining publicly. So that's a big thing. You know it's going to get people down. It's going to get people to stop working as hard as they would because of the complaints. So that creates lack of motivation toward other people. It's like a cancer it spreads.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah yeah, again for the pot of soup analogy. It's like the soup goes bad, right.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, because it's not just that one person.

Jimmy Chebat:

That's going bad. Everything starts to go bad, and we used to put a heavy emphasis on energy flow. Yeah, and really even just the way you set up the desks so that the interactions are happening or not happening.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, we used to do seats, that's definitely a thing we do every now and then, like seat changes. I won't do that anymore. I'm happy where I sit. You've earned your seat. No, yeah, like I'll just say no In a positive way.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Yeah, in a positive way right yeah, in a motivating, positive way.

Bryan Williams :

But no, that is a thing too like, especially if you see like somebody's kind of slacking or maybe they're really good at their job but they could use a couple pointers you would put them next to a heavy hitter. They're not going to teach you anything, it's literally just to listen to see how they're, you know, overturning results.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, that strategy there is more kind of like. I think of that Garfield poster that was in all of our grade school classes where they had the books taped to them and learning by osmosis.

Jimmy Chebat:

It's just absorbing what you're hearing and sensing around you and then applying some of those lessons to that. But you know, some of the things that you mentioned kind of translates into leadership, and so I want to transition into a conversation. There's a saying that people don't quit companies, they quit leaders, and you know there's different sorts of leadership styles. You know, according to a forecast, 57% of employees quit their jobs because of their boss. Tell me, would you, from your perspective? It sounds like you're one of the leaders on the floor. You may not be a boss, you might not be in an authoritative position, but what do you consider a good leader?

Bryan Williams :

Again, accountability, kindness, the ability to have understanding, I think is really important, because everybody has their own lives and things happen to you. You might be late one day, you might have to miss. I think leading by example is a huge one. Like my boss, when I first started, he literally showed me what he used to do, because he used to do literally that job before he owned the center. And to sit there next to me and show me exactly what he did that gave him success, is a great way to motivate somebody. To motivate somebody you know, to sit there and be like I literally have done this before, and now here is, you know, just like. Here's a trick of the trade, you know things like that.

Bryan Williams :

So to be a leader is to be able to, you know, look at one of your employees and see their strengths and work on their strengths and not comment on their weaknesses. A lot of micromanagement, I think, happens in these types of call centers and a lot of just jobs in general where there's one way to do something, which sure there probably is, for whatever means you might have. But the truth is everybody works a little different and that's something I definitely could point out in this office. We all have different like styles in the way that we talk to people and get our jobs done, and that's not micromanaged. So that's like really important to be able to work with your employees and again see their strengths.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Getting back, though, to the leadership in the business world, and you I love what you talked about is, you know, being willing to fail? Yeah, but also what you mentioned earlier about being open to learning from other people, can you talk about? I already kind of know who you're going to talk about, but we, you know, we discussed it in the past, but you know who has influenced you, even in the collections world, and helped you get to where you are now and being, you know, one of the top, if not top, person in the office. Well, again.

Bryan Williams :

I mean definitely my, my boss, george, you know, he, he, he taught me a lot of really like good strategies, absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's proof's in the pudding. He tells you exactly what it is. You start doing it, you see results, yeah, so I'm going to relate that to coaching and training. That's an important part. Coaching and training is important as a leader.

Jimmy Chebat:

As a leader, yes, you have to take that and it's a lot easier to do with smaller groups, right, and I think you guys benefit from that small group, because then you can individually kind of cater to everybody's needs, correct, and you know you had talked about I want to kind of take those people that came in and left.

Jimmy Chebat:

I think attrition, which is a topic we'll get into a little bit later. Really, people, you know we ask that question, you know what are some of your problems and you know they mention attrition. We're like, well, we don't really have an attrition problem. The people who have been here have been here for a long time, which is the case with you guys, but the problem isn't with the veterans, it's with the new people. And so what do you think is the difference in the leadership or what is happening in terms of the type of styles of leadership with the new people? Is it the individuals or is the leadership changing between those new people coming in? What are your thoughts on leadership with some of the new people?

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I believe it's because if you go into an office that's already kind of like a well-oiled machine and everybody's doing their own thing, talking about not being micromanaged, and you're seeing all these people get results, what you'll see is the upper management is, again, they're not micromanaging. So the new people coming in there's almost an expectation of they should already know how to do these things. There's not individual training when you get to this level of the office that I work in.

Jimmy Chebat:

Okay, so I think that's. Are you hiring veterans, people who have already done the job Well?

Bryan Williams :

I mean, I guess, assumingly so. Yes, Because, like you know, a lot of these people come in off recommendations from other people from the office, but you never really know, like, what their history is or, like you know, if they have, like you know, problems outside of the office. You know, you know, like, which is part of the culture? I think, absolutely. I've seen some, some wild personalities in this industry, yeah, but I think that's a big thing to say. It's like this expectation of like you should know how to do all this stuff, and then like they don't, and then you find out it's like, oh, like they're they're doing, like they're saying, like really, really dumb, dumb stuff, like that could get us in a lot of trouble, because no, no one is telling them. It's like, no, don't say that, right, so I'll, you know my superior. Or just make a slight at them like, not a slight sorry, like a comment of like hey, like you shouldn't be saying that that could get us in a lot of trouble, you know or whatever.

Jimmy Chebat:

You had mentioned something you know briefly there that you know we don't know about their problems and I think it's a really good transition to something that you know is becoming being brought to light a lot more and it was an accepted part of the culture you know in terms of, hey, there's some sort of alcohol addiction, drug addiction, gambling addiction some sort of addiction.

Jimmy Chebat:

That kind of leans into the mental health side of things and I think we're becoming more conscious of mental health and you work in a very stressful industry, especially when you're not just a call center, because it's redundant, the work is the same, it's repetitive each and every day and you're a frontline worker, meaning you're talking directly to a consumer. They're not really happy to hear from you, are they?

Bryan Williams :

Most of the time, most of the time, no, no, yeah. But, if you're good at your job, they'll be thanking you at the end.

Andrew J. Reimers:

They'll be thanking you exactly.

Bryan Williams :

That's my goal after every conversation.

Jimmy Chebat:

The topic of mental health, you know, is again coming to light more and people are addressing it more. You know, how does working in a call center affect your mental health?

Bryan Williams :

What do you? What's the impact? It can happen. I mean good and bad days happen. My mental health can actually affect my work. You know, I think it's actually more that way, like if I'm having a bad day I won't be as focused, but it's not really the opposite, at least for me. I can definitely see how some people take their work and then they leave the door with it. Sorry, go out the door with it. I leave it, that's my job, and then I get to go play music after and then I get all that out. So that work balance is really important too. That I think a lot of people don't have. They don't have these important hobbies that they can do outside the job. They're just kind of working and they go home and it's done, and now you go back and that can create a very anxious like over a long amount of time if they're bringing their work stress home yes, okay, and then and then.

Jimmy Chebat:

If they're bringing their home stress yeah.

Bryan Williams :

If you create that cycle, yeah, you know. Then you have, like you have if you have a family, you got bills, mortgage, all the stuff you know you're you're living to work. It's compounding. Yeah, yeah, you know it can happen. You, you got got to have that balance.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I would say yeah, it's important and you're lucky and I can relate to it because my outlet as our resident basket case here is so mental health is very important to me and mental health awareness is a huge issue for me.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Mental health awareness is a huge issue for me and I'm very proud of where I work here because you know our leadership does everything to help me when I need it. So if I am waking up because I love the way you put that, that it isn't necessarily your job that causes the mental health problems For me and the things that I deal with I never know who or what I'm going to be when I wake up in the morning. No, and then I have to do my job in spite of that.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, like you try to have a constant right.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Sometimes it's just like you can't.

Bryan Williams :

You're just like all right, I'm going to work. I have all these problems, or you got in a fight with your girlfriend or something. It's like you still have to work.

Andrew J. Reimers:

You still have to work and not everybody has that outlet of music. But, jimmy, you brought up a great point. Unfortunately, in the world we live in and the way our country is shaped at the moment, it's very easy to, if you don't have a creative outlet, to dive into alcohol, dive into drugs, get into gambling, having those kinds of vices to try to mask that sort of pain.

Jimmy Chebat:

um, let me add one more thing to that dive into social media you know, and I think that is an addiction that, I think, is being kind of like under the radar here.

Bryan Williams :

That's something I've been trying to do, actually like myself. It's like wake up and not look at my phone for at least like an hour to two hours, like I try to go get some sunlight in my face. It's like the first thing you're like you're exposing yourself to so much negativity. Sure Cause, you know there's like the world is kind of a really bad place right now, like very divisive yeah, and you you pull up social media like you're. You're automatically like tuning your brain to like negative energy. Yeah, you know. So you got you got to have, you know, talking about mental health, you know it's like you got to have that, uh, that foundation for yourself, or at least be aware of it.

Jimmy Chebat:

Do you feel there's a place in at work or a responsibility to, to maybe incorporate some of that, the aspects of hey, let's get out and get some sun. Absolutely let's stand up and do some exercises.

Bryan Williams :

I do it two or three times a day at work, but that's you, you're doing it Sure.

Jimmy Chebat:

Do you feel that the responsibility should be shouldered by the organization or by leadership?

Bryan Williams :

I think that would be a good idea Like you can't make people do that, you know but I think to show that you're having like general thought about people's mental health is definitely a good form of leadership.

Jimmy Chebat:

Mental health, I think, does play a pretty major role in attrition and burnout. It's a topic that we're very conscious of, especially in frontline workers, where you're dealing with consumers and you know again, I think, part of this social media society that we live in, everybody's got a camera and everybody feels like they're entitled and they deserve the best and they're going to put a camera in your face. I mean, you're on the phone, so it's not necessarily, but they may be recording you on their phone call as well and trying to trap you into some things.

Jimmy Chebat:

And you know what do you feel? You know you've been in this for six years and that's a long time, that's a long tenure and, from my perspective, I feel that music is what helps keep you there.

Bryan Williams :

Absolutely, Because it allows you to do your music In tangent. Yeah, but that took me a long time to get the balance where I have right now. Right now is definitely I feel the most in control of my life, and that's because I've worked hard enough, I think, to get that respect to ask for these things. Can I leave early so I can have three hours to change my brain to becoming like from a collector to a musician, rather than having to like rush out the door, have all my gear in the car and go right to the gig? So from stress to stress, yeah, you know, and like I see that as a really important, it's a valuable thing for me. So I play better, you know. So like it's still a job, I'm still making money, you know, it's all that was there a time that it that didn't exist?

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, absolutely, and what was that?

Bryan Williams :

like it was stressful, I mean, you still had to do it, and I think I didn't do it to the caliber that I am now, because like it just wasn't possible. Well, you've matured, yeah, I think some experience. Well, I'm saying as far as, like, how many gigs I now play, play, okay, you know, like I'm doing the opportunities, yeah, for yeah, like I'm now taking on four to five gigs a week while working full time. Wow, yeah, and like then sometimes, like I said, I need to leave early and my boss is like super cool about it, like I'm just I'm so fortunate and like just grateful that like I just have somehow painted this picture for myself and it's right now working, so it reminds me.

Jimmy Chebat:

I don't know if you remember being in school and maybe you have a field trip later in the afternoon. I used to play street hockey. If I knew I had a game after school. That day flew by because I had.

Jimmy Chebat:

I don't know if you would call it hope or just something to look forward to Get out and do something and just the day flies by and so you have that and you've always had that, and I think this was a means to an end, so it allows you to to do that, but there's a lot of people that don't yeah.

Bryan Williams :

Right, I was just talking about this with somebody the other day. Like you know just how people, a lot of people, don't have that outlet. They work and they go home and it's like damn I get it, there's nothing wrong with that per se. Some people are happy with their lives.

Jimmy Chebat:

whatever To each their own People who don't have your talents, the capability of being an artist. What advice would you give them? And and that they can't do music.

Bryan Williams :

Okay, I mean there's, there's a, there's a lot of things you could be doing. You know fitness could be one Um. You know, everybody can draw, everybody can write in a journal, Everybody can take a second to meditate. Take a hike, Take a hike, Literally.

Jimmy Chebat:

Go for a walk. Go for a walk, Andrew what are some?

Bryan Williams :

of the things that you've done. Read a book.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Read a book.

Jimmy Chebat:

What's that? Some of the things that you've done, I mean in the past. Go back to where you were at the call center. What are some of the outlets? I know you've also had music.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Yeah, I did have music and the funny, the cool thing about music is, of course, you want to make money playing music. That's not necessarily why people want to do it. You do it for attention and girls. That's why you do it. But even before I was making money and having a second career in music, I still had what you were talking about, like with street hockey, where even going home and practicing or we had band practice and I wasn't making any money doing that. In fact, I was losing money with all the you know, alcohol we were buying, you know, in order to get through practice. But it was fun and having that. But you know, for now, for me it's experiencing new things, with my son showing him the world, you know, showing him the things that I used to love to do, getting his take on it, but also, you know, learning the music that he loves, and him and I sit down and play music together and I don't, you know, post it. I don't. It's all just for us.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Writing. You brought up a good thing Even when I'm not writing music, I still love writing and telling stories and I constantly I consider myself uh, at this point, um, I'm in therapy full time. I mean, that's something that I take a lot of pride in Uh, I have a lot of appointments doing that, um but trying to just figure out a way to better myself in any aspect of my life, even by just 1%. So it can even be something as simple. As you know, I'm not speaking from experience here, but working in a soup kitchen for a day or you know what, getting a positive feeling and trying to switch that. You know the little flip, the switch in my brain for mental health, where something I did recently I wasn't feeling great but I decided to go through my closet, get rid of all the clothes that I love, to believe I'll be able to fit in again someday, but it ain't gonna happen and being able to donate that and even something like that.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Knowing, you know, trying to help other people and trying to be that example for my son where you know as much, you know, I don't play music anymore. I like to give it to the younger guys now and let them, you know, take the reins. But yeah, it really is taking pride in being a parent, being a husband, being a better son to my mom, developing those relationships and just cherishing every minute that I have, because I'm very lucky. I love my job. I'm not saying that because Jimmy's sitting right here. I genuinely enjoy what I do and I've said it before how much I believe in our platform. But riding a bike, taking a walk, all of those things help me in my mental health.

Jimmy Chebat:

It's great to suggest or recommend all of these different things, but there's something I think that is a differentiator here is when you have something planned, as opposed to yeah, I have all of these options and then you go home and you sit down on your couch and you open your phone and all of a sudden you're in that rabbit hole. But when you have something planned hey, I'm scheduling, I'm going to take a bike ride with my son, we're going to go take a walk with my wife walk.

Bryan Williams :

That's definitely a good thing, even if you're not doing like, for example, like playing gigs and stuff. Like.

Jimmy Chebat:

Having some sort of schedule definitely is good for most people, I would say yeah, giving them something to do besides you know like I'm addicted to the grind.

Bryan Williams :

You know, yeah, I always feel like I want to be doing something, yeah, and I always feel very like out of place if I'm just sitting stagnant. I mean, sometimes you've got to sit and just be with your thoughts, right? But yeah, I'm definitely addicted to the grind that way.

Andrew J. Reimers:

You have, brian, obviously a very strong idea of what keeps you positive and keeps your mental health strong. Like to see from managers or leaders within, whether your call center or call centers anywhere, or businesses anywhere, for people to really focus on their employees mental health.

Bryan Williams :

I think like one-on-one check-ins would be a good one, like not like demanding information from your employees, but like just showing that you even care.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, because, like you never know what someone's going through in their day, and just just like just asking, like just out, of, just like the kindness of your heart, like how are you doing, I think would be like a great manager technique, cause most people feel like kind of insignificant when you know you're, you're you're day in and day out, and like you're not really having like intellectual, intellectual, important conversations with your higher ups. And I think that's like a thing like in my office, like that's a huge thing, like I'm very close with with george and kelsey, and like we're able to talk about things even outside of work. So, yeah, I would say definitely like one-on-one check-ins would be a great way to do it. Um, you know, and maybe just like you like making some sort of like memo post or something about mental health, but, like you know, corporations do this already, though, and I think a lot of the people who like see that it's like this is crap, like you don't actually care about us, but corporations do that.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, it's like to keep people from you know, from quitting and saying we care about you Now here's your pizza. Thank you At the end of every month. But I think that one-on-one conversation actually puts some sort of human element to it. From a boss, yeah, I think that goes a long way.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I really like that idea because it brings me back to something you mentioned earlier about people that might be having a bad day, and whether it's because they're just having no luck on the phones, or maybe they are struggling, maybe they're dealing with anxiety or depression, sure, but the way they complain on the floor and it spreads like a cancer and it ruins the culture. Yep, one-on-one meetings not only gives you something to potentially look forward to, but allows them to get everything off their chest. Yeah, while learning enough about them and we talked about you know potentially a lack of training, or you know opportunities and teaching people how to be leaders, like, yeah, you might discover who your next person is that you want to promote just from having those one-on-one absolutely yeah and you obviously can't force this upon anybody because, like, not everybody feels comfortable talking about their feelings.

Bryan Williams :

Right, you know Right, especially when you can't demand like everyone's having one-on-one check-ins, like that's going to blow up in your face for sure. Mandatory.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Tell me what's wrong.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, right now, I think, to offer that would go a long way for somebody who would feel compelled to use that service.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, and it's got to be genuine, so genuine it's got to be genuine.

Bryan Williams :

You got to have genuine empathy. You got to have that human element as a boss. It's like I'm not your boss right now. I'm a person caring about you and like that goes a long way.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, we used to have an 80-20 rule where a lot of our management comes told through data Sure. And then you know, sometimes there's flags right that are raised like hey, I don't know what's going on here, but Brian's had zero productive days in a row. Okay, the other 20% it is human Go have a conversation.

Bryan Williams :

Don't just assume that they're just yeah, check in.

Jimmy Chebat:

Hey, brian, you've been consistent, but for some reason, now what's going on? What's going on.

Bryan Williams :

Exactly reason now what's going on, exactly not, hey what the hell are you doing?

Jimmy Chebat:

nine times out of ten, something's probably going on 100, and that's what we've always found and again trying to. Like you said, you can't force people to tell you things. You have to kind of a lot, just give them that opening. Hey, how's it going, sir? You know, and maybe I don't know, what would you, how would you phrase that question? What's wrong? How are doing Like, what's the best way? If we have a manager that's listening, now that is not formally trained in, you know, empathy or is not naturally empathetic, but not formally?

Jimmy Chebat:

trained in human psychology what questions is the best opening for them to use?

Bryan Williams :

How do you?

Jimmy Chebat:

phrase, that question.

Bryan Williams :

I guess first like setting the foundation and floor, as, hey, I'm going to talk to you right now as a human, you know, like I'm not your boss right now, and then you check in with statistics so you have that logic for the conversation of what you're talking about. And then you have the human conversation of like, so, because of this is something causing this, and if you're comfortable, I would be more than willing to try to help you get through that. That's what I would say would be a great way to do that.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I like that and actually switching gears a little bit. However, I think it is related. I want to discuss one of our other topics, which is engagement and distractions in the workplace. Now, engagement is kind of a buzzword, especially around here at ZIZO, but in the people that we talk to, our customers and other companies that you know potentially are looking into using ZIZO, one of the things that they're concerned about is actual employee engagement, that people seem distracted and you know there's actually a study that showed it stated 21% of employees are engaged at work. 21%, not a great figure, not a great number by any means, but when it comes to engagement and the reason, I think they're related, because those conversations you just mentioned could definitely help with this and I think you're in a very good position where you work, but when it comes to engagement with your work, I'd be curious to know what that means to you.

Jimmy Chebat:

Can you do your job without being focused?

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, okay, I can, absolutely, you can. I think you can go through the motions, right? No, I can, it's one of those things. It's like it's just clockwork going through your head. You know you're like I got like my, my, my like this, and you know you're just typing in, like you're still like looking at emails or something while I'm still on the phone. Yeah, Multitasking, but engagement, Um, yeah, definitely staying focused, wanting to do the best job every time consecutively to see the results that you want.

Jimmy Chebat:

Andrew, how would you define engagement? What do you consider to be engagement?

Andrew J. Reimers:

Well, as much as we don't want people taking their work home with them. I know that I'm very engaged with my job because, whether I want to or not, I can't stop thinking of ideas and ways to improve things and ways to improve what I'm doing. It becomes a natural part of me. So for me it's, you know, my engagement is getting here early, doing my job to the best of my ability and taking pride in my work, knowing that I'm engaged. I don't come here just because of the paycheck. I come here because I believe in our company, in our product and what we do. So you know, you said something earlier that I love because I it didn't happen to me very often, but I can remember every instance that it did happen, when I was doing collections and I would be ready to. You know, we got the payment on file and we were ready to hang up and end the call and they would thank me. Yes, and that directly contributed to my engagement because all of a sudden, I felt like I was making an actual difference.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Definitely actual difference. So it's wanting to do better, not just for personal selfish reasons, but for the betterment of the company as a whole, because the company itself, through many different ways, lets me know that my role is important, so would you define that as sense of purpose.

Bryan Williams :

I think that's a definitely a part of it, yeah, and then and I think also being able to see your results is really important too Um, just to kind of like touch on what ZIZO does, it's like it keeps you engaged because you are keeping track of your productivity all day, and then all week, and then all month and all year, and I think that's a big part too, you know, for for you to literally be able to see how well you're doing.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah when we talk to prospects and we get some people who look at it and say, hey, they love our interface and they've gone through a product demo, and they say, well, we don't want this to be a distraction, and so I then will respond well, let's talk about something else. Can you tell me what engagement means to you? And I ask them the same question, because, to your point, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make, is we're providing information, we're informing each and every individual in real time what's their expectation or what's expected from them, and then where they are relative to those expectations, and then with a little bit of friendly competition.

Bryan Williams :

And that just kind of happens, like subconsciously, you start seeing people do better than you. You want to do better, yeah, and there's a number that statistically is right in front of you that you want to beat or you want to get to. I think that's valuable.

Jimmy Chebat:

I couldn't agree more.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Chebat:

Talk to me about what distractions that are currently exist in your work life.

Bryan Williams :

You know, sometimes, uh, you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and it's tough to like get in gear. Um, but a cup of coffee always helps. I wouldn't say I have too many distractions, because I tried to maintain the balance of like coming into work and just immediately like get right on the phone.

Jimmy Chebat:

Okay, I don't like to waste time I consider you an outlier, so I'm going to rephrase this question because you have a really good kind of balance. Yeah to you like I would consider most people may consider like you're outside your second career in music as a potential distraction, but you use that as a motivator. Right yeah, absolutely, Because it helps you do your music. So let me rephrase what distractions do you see with other employees or other people?

Bryan Williams :

in their work life. Sure, you know, financial stresses, I think, definitely are one.

Jimmy Chebat:

Children, if you have a family, now you guys, just quick aside here, which is another one of our topics, but I don't think it's related to you guys. You guys are not work from home, you guys are in office. Do you guys are fully in office or do you guys have a hybrid?

Bryan Williams :

There was a hybrid for COVID. Okay, well, actually it was completely in the house for a while, but then, if you wanted to, you could go to the office, because, like nobody really was, so actually I was doing that every now and then it's just like me me and my other boss. So I was like, oh, this is fun, um, and covid scared the crap out of me though, so I never wanted to leave the house.

Jimmy Chebat:

So you had that experience and there's a difference. So talk to me about that difference between work from home and distractions and then coming into your office. Oh, absolutely that. That was a big thing I noticed like I don't like working from home and distractions and then coming into your office.

Bryan Williams :

Oh, absolutely, that was a big thing. I noticed I don't like working from home for that reason. So many distractions. You can get up and go lay on your couch whenever you want. You can go up and go get food whenever you want. You don't even have to get dressed. You can roll out of bed five minutes before you're supposed to clock in work in your underwear, I don't know.

Jimmy Chebat:

We're just pros and cons, right.

Bryan Williams :

That's a great thing, some people would say what do you mean? That's exactly what I want to do. Productivity, though, I would say, goes out the window.

Jimmy Chebat:

It's a mindset right For me, at least Some people do better.

Bryan Williams :

There's a lot of stats out there talking about that, like of how productivity increases when you don't have to go into the office, and I think that's also like personality type, like who you are and what motivates you to work harder. More concise, for me, it's like I like the idea of like a structured day, of like waking up, putting clothes on, getting in the car, you know going to work.

Jimmy Chebat:

I like that idea? Yeah. So if you had an option or opportunity for hybrid, I would. Yeah, you would do both.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, so I would definitely find times to like utilize. You know my breaks, breaks more often because I have instruments in my house or something write a song, learn a song or whatever that could be useful in that way. Yeah, I like the hybrid. I think a lot of companies do that right now. Yeah, and we're a hybrid.

Jimmy Chebat:

How did you guys stay connected?

Bryan Williams :

We use Microsoft Teams, so that's our basis of communication for anything work-related. Did you use it often? Yeah, still do every day. That's super helpful because you can't be calling or texting people. Obviously, if you need something right right away, you just you know you make a phone call it's an?

Jimmy Chebat:

is you know what's? An interesting dichotomy? Is you know you had mentioned it? Phones aren't allowed in a call center, especially in a collection. Sure, right, but you're home all right, so that's another thing too, exactly, and like people get away with murder.

Bryan Williams :

yeah, and you'll see these huge gaps of no work, like what are they doing? Yeah, they're just like they're screwing around on their phone. More than likely yeah, and there's nobody so would you agree, there's more distractions at home than absolutely and it would take a pretty disciplined mind to remove those distractions.

Jimmy Chebat:

I remember way before COVID, a long time ago, when I was an it consultant in my early twenties and I didn't have an office, I didn't need an office. Way before COVID, a long time ago, when I was an IT consultant in my early 20s and I didn't have an office, I didn't need an office. Most of my work I would do at my clients' businesses. But when I am home, you know, my significant other thought that I was home, that I wasn't working. And you know just that little like if you're in a flow, in a zone and you're just working on something, and then there's that interruption and a question like hey, can you take out the garbage? Like I'm working. Yeah, I know. Like well, it takes you five minutes, like no I am working.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I understand I'm home, but like I'm actually like on the clock, yeah I run into that uh daily because, uh, you know, sometimes out of necessity, there's a hybrid uh schedule. So, you know, for me, I I make it a point to come in early and get as much work done as I can while I'm at home, and then I have the luxury to be able to leave, because I have a son and I can't leave him home alone. So, whether it's being after school and I was able to work it out with our leadership here, but I run into the same thing where I'm home and dad, look at this, check this out, listen to this, watch this, and like I'm not here, dude, like I'm here in case you're bleeding or like dying, but like other than that, leave me alone.

Jimmy Chebat:

Last topic.

Andrew J. Reimers:

I know we're up against the clock here.

Jimmy Chebat:

Save the best for last, in my opinion. Compensation and incentives. Sure, you know, there's a study that shows that 51% of employees believe that they're underpaid. That's, it Was that half, 50%, more than half, 51% 51% feel that they're underpaid. But some of that, I think, is related to lack of self-awareness.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Or who's asking the question, or who's asking the question.

Jimmy Chebat:

I agree with that. How do you feel about your current compensation structure? Not to throw George under the bus here, no, you're fine.

Bryan Williams :

I have nothing but great things to say about my compensation. There's a great bonus structure. I mean that's half the reason, I think, why anybody stays in this industry.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Yeah, you don't get a lot of collectors that are in it for the love of the game.

Jimmy Chebat:

No, so let's define that for a lot of our audience here who may not understand, because bonuses are part of compensation. I really want to define and create that differentiator, that line between compensation and incentives. Okay, so help us understand your bonus structure.

Bryan Williams :

I have a base rate and then I have a goal and then, once you exceed that goal, you get a percentage rate over that number.

Jimmy Chebat:

Okay. So, as an example, if you're making $20 an hour, hour and then your goal is $20,000 cash or fee Yep, anything. You get over that $20,000, let's just say you clear $25,000. Yep, you get a percentage of that $5,000. You get 25% of that Of that. So it would be a $1,250 bonus check, correct On top of your base rate. Yep, correct On top of your base rate Yep.

Bryan Williams :

So you get three checks a month.

Jimmy Chebat:

So that's great Hold on Is the third check, the bonus check.

Bryan Williams :

Yes, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying, that's nice, I mean it goes all together in the last one. But yeah, yeah, it's technically three checks, okay, so now let's talk about incentives, okay. You guys are on a Z. How do you define an incentive? For example, like with a bonus you work harder, you clear a higher goal, you make a higher bonus. Check, that's right there an incentive.

Jimmy Chebat:

But you have an incentive budget and let me see if I can rephrase the question here With Zizzo. George allocates a certain budget per month to put into rewards that is distributed through the Zizo platform. Oh, I love that reward store. I use it all the time To earn the Z-Bucks. The Z-Bucks right, I do love the Z-Bucks. Those are considered incentives. Absolutely so. Although the term incentive could be used in different ways, sure One is hey, this is incentivizing me to do more To make more money.

Jimmy Chebat:

So it's kind of like a motivation, a motivator.

Bryan Williams :

And then you have the reward store. It's like the incentive to get material possessions Correct, which I think is awesome.

Jimmy Chebat:

I do like the concept of. Zbox, it's cool. So, from a motivation standpoint, you have your bonus, your commission, which is hey, I'm going to work harder, I'm going to get more of my check.

Andrew J. Reimers:

It goes directly into your paycheck.

Jimmy Chebat:

It goes into your paycheck and then you have the Z-Bucks that you're earning multiple times on a daily basis. Potentially, you have the opportunities at least Yep and then you can redeem those in the reward store for tangible goods Yep. Hey, what's the differentiator there?

Bryan Williams :

You're saying, like the motivation to make more money as opposed to make more ZBucks, correct, okay, is there a difference? I would say they're kind of similar. Okay, I would say they're pretty similar actually. I mean obviously like ZBucks are something you guys created to make incentive for employees so that they can feel like they're being rewarded while they work, because, like, I only get paid twice a month but I can get like anything from the reward store at any time. Or like the incentive to win a competition to get more Z-Bucks, you know. So they're kind of similar.

Jimmy Chebat:

I would say so one of the. I'm trying to understand it from your perspective. This is more educational for me, right? Because I do believe psychologically there's a difference between money that goes into your paycheck, that gets direct deposited into your account, versus the money that goes into your digital wallet that you can spend at any time and for anything in the real world, I mean, I would definitely agree with that Okay. So talk to me about that, Okay. What is the psychological difference?

Bryan Williams :

Okay, well, obviously Z-Bucks are like, not like it is like real money, but it's not like I can't put it yeah, it's a fake currency it's a digital currency.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, it's a digital currency. Can't put that in my wallet, so that's right there. The difference, um, the ability to take the z buck and spend it on a tangible good. There's only, like, certain things you can buy, you know. But one thing I do love that you guys do offer is the ability to like, customize your store based upon, like, if I ask andrew to like, hey, like he literally did this for me. Like he put a guitar case and I bought that with Zbox, like I thought that was the coolest thing ever.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Yeah, that's something we take a lot of pride in, because and it isn't just because I like you, you know that's part of it.

Bryan Williams :

But just to customize the store. I think it's cool.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Everything that you see in the store has come directly from our users because, you know, I think something that we talk about a lot, jimmy, as I think something that we talk about a lot Jimmy as far as Zizzo goes and that psychology and the mentality of it, and not to put words in your mouth, but we see from other people and the feedback we get is it's the ability to have sort of that guilt-free spend on something, that when that money goes into your check that's going to go to bills and dog food and things where you might not take that money for your paycheck and buy that guitar case.

Bryan Williams :

No, I wouldn't. You're right. I think that's a good point. It's like it's free money, almost yeah, and you're getting that just by doing your job Right. Like as long as you do your job well, you make Z-Bucks. It's like kind of wild.

Jimmy Chebat:

Does having something in the reward store that you really want push you and drive you to work? Maybe just a little bit harder to get to that reward faster?

Bryan Williams :

Sometimes, yeah, you know, I would say like I like to keep my like digital wallet like never lower than 15,000 Z bucks. Okay, so we have two personas.

Jimmy Chebat:

Yeah, we call them savers and spenders. Okay, so we have two personas. We call them savers and spenders. And savers are the ones that I'm going to keep accruing to get that big reward, and spenders are the ones that need that instant gratification.

Bryan Williams :

I'm definitely a spender.

Jimmy Chebat:

You're a spender.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, I probably have spent the most Z-Bucks. I would say.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Yeah, I mean I won't get into specific names.

Bryan Williams :

I've earned a lot of Z-Bucks, but like I've bought so many Tango cards, it's like, I mean, for me, it's like when I didn't have a car for a year. I mean I literally used that Tango card for Uber rides to get to work and it's like so I thought that it was a great incentive of, like my job's paying for my transportation. Oh yeah, so like and it's like so I thought that it was a great incentive of, like my job's paying for my transportation.

Jimmy Chebat:

Oh yeah, so like that, that's right there. That's was that cheaper than actually owning a car? Yeah, I did the math oh yeah, interesting.

Bryan Williams :

It actually was like my car payments and insurance were so high, yeah, and like I did the math, like it actually was cheaper just to uber every day to work.

Jimmy Chebat:

Besides tango cards and the guitar case, what are your favorite things that you want to see in a reward store or you like seeing in a reward store?

Bryan Williams :

Well, anything that makes you happy. Again, the ability to customize the reward store is great, whether it be things for personal hygiene or if you want to buy an umbrella or a chair.

Jimmy Chebat:

These are things that you don't like spending your own personal money out of your paycheck on.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, no, I don't. It's funny though.

Jimmy Chebat:

Personal hygiene. I'm going to shower until I get some Zip.

Bryan Williams :

I have great hygiene, I can tell.

Jimmy Chebat:

One of the purposes of the reward store is one size does not fit all. One type of prize cannot satisfy each individual. And so back in the days we used to have contests and tournaments when I had my agency. We'd put TVs out there, we'd put headphones out there, classic TV Gadgets. That was a thing when.

Bryan Williams :

I had my agency. We'd put TVs out there, we'd put headphones out there Any of the latest gadgets? Classic TV yeah.

Jimmy Chebat:

That was a. Thing. Because that's when flat screens were first coming out? Oh yeah, Everybody was transitioning.

Bryan Williams :

Everybody wanted a 7-inch From the old school console TVs to the flat screens.

Jimmy Chebat:

It ended up getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Back in my day in collections, I won an iPad which was phenomenal. I won an iPad which was phenomenal and then the next month I won another iPad I just sold it.

Bryan Williams :

I'm going to be honest. I know that's what most people do. I've won, I think, three televisions in my time in the elections.

Jimmy Chebat:

I've sold them every time, every time yeah, and so that's actually what we wanted to combat is, hey, instead of devaluing the reward, customize the reward for each individual. I think that's a great idea. That's a great idea, brian. It's been an absolute pleasure. You've brought in some really cool insights and perspective and I think you're an amazing individual. You know from a personal standpoint, but I know George is very fortunate to have you as an employee as well, and I'm sure your audience at your concerts.

Jimmy Chebat:

love hearing you. And again we're going to put all of his handles here for social media to make sure people can follow you on social Get you a little bit of plug?

Andrew J. Reimers:

I know, I don't know. Are we outing you a little bit as far as your like day to day life, your, your, your daytime job, I mean I.

Bryan Williams :

I have no qualm telling people what I do.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Good, all right, that's good. Probably should ask them that earlier.

Bryan Williams :

There's got to be honest, right yeah.

Jimmy Chebat:

Two more segments that we have here, very small segments. One I want to give you an opportunity to ask us any questions. Is there anything that you would like to ask us? You don't have to, but if there's any questions that you have for us, please feel free to ask. Why did you invent ZIZO? So, out of necessity, the original purpose, and we've got a couple episodes. We'll make sure to send you the link and you can hear the whole origin story. But initially it was called the eWhiteboard. This was back in 2008, 2009. Oh, I used that. I used the eWhiteboard. The eWhiteboard yeah, that was more of it.

Jimmy Chebat:

Oh, that was kind of like the first, the first iteration of ZIZO and it was more about accountability and objectivity in terms of management and it evolved. Because everybody thinks that ZIZO is just a gamification platform. It's really not it's. It's a communication tool, it's an accountability tool, it's a fairness and inclusivity tool, it's a way to get 100% participation within the incentive budget where everybody could earn. You can't point the finger anymore. So all of the, the failures, as you put it, or or the lack of success, the pros and the cons, I've learned from the pros, I've enhanced. You know the good and bad. You know I've tried to fix with this iteration of the platform from e-whiteboard to ZIZO, and we just rebranded it as ZIZO, which, as you said, stands for zoom in, zoom out, the ability to see things from a big picture down into the weeds.

Bryan Williams :

Yeah, to the very minutes, yeah.

Jimmy Chebat:

Any other questions?

Bryan Williams :

No, okay, all right, all right.

Jimmy Chebat:

Well, we're going to transition to the last part of our episode here, which we always love to play a game. Last season we played Name the Game. Oh, here we go, which we use here. I'm going to give you this buzzer, so you're going to have a buzzer. So what we're going to do here, the format is just trivia, and you're going to go against Andrew. Here it's a one-on-one. It's going to be a fast format, so we're going to just go fast here. I'm going to ask a question. It's a trivia question. First person to buzz in gets an opportunity to answer. If you get it wrong, then the next person gets the answer as well. So I mean, I don't know if we want, there's no penalties. We're just making the rules on the fly here, but there are no penalties for getting it wrong. We may have to adjust that because people will just, sweating, put it on there. So, uh, yeah, let's do a minus one if you get it wrong. It's a minus, just don't flip the table okay, I'm not that

Jimmy Chebat:

strong. I'll ask the question. You buzz in. If you know the answer, answer it, we'll keep score. So first question which company slogan is you're in good hands? All state yes, correct, okay. Next question who was the first televised president eisenhower? Nope, roosevelt, franklin d roosevelt. So we're gonna play first person in five. Originally, amazon only sold. What kind of product? I even tried to give you that one. I know books, that's correct. This guy knows trivia. Who painted the mona lisa? Come on guys. Oh my god. Uh, buzz in, let's go, somebody's got to know. Wait, you both don't know. He obviously knows I. Okay, nobody gets it all right. No, I tried to give you one there. Le Leonardo da Vinci, right. Who was the first person to win a Nobel Prize? This one's a tough one.

Andrew J. Reimers:

That is a tough one.

Jimmy Chebat:

Marie Curie. Okay, okay. What was the original purpose of the tiny pocket in jeans Guitar picks?

Bryan Williams :

Wrong Change.

Jimmy Chebat:

No Little store pocket watches, oh, all right. What does SPF in sunscreen stand for?

Bryan Williams :

Sun protection Pass.

Jimmy Chebat:

You're close. Sun protection factor oh You're close. Chrome, safari, firefox and Explorer are different types of what Internet browsers Web browsers I'll take it Search engines. They are not search engines. They are web browsers. There's a difference In what year was the internet open to the public 1989. 1993. Wow, who is often credited with creating the world's first car? Henry Ford.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Nope.

Jimmy Chebat:

I was going to say Ford. Nope, he was the one that created the production line. It was Carl Benz who created the first car. Demolition of the Berlin Wall separated East and West Germany began in what year?

Andrew J. Reimers:

1989? That's correct.

Jimmy Chebat:

Last question, guys, here we go. What is the last name of the business tycoon behind the number five perfume, chanel? Chanel, ding, ding, ding, ding. Correct, and that's it. So our winner today is Andrew.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Hey, great job, what do I win?

Jimmy Chebat:

You don't win anything, damn it. You get one point.

Andrew J. Reimers:

Where's my incentive?

Jimmy Chebat:

But you know what we are going to give? A nice pair of ZIZO socks. Oh, I love good socks Thank you and for coming on our show. Thank you so much for participating.

Andrew J. Reimers:

It's been a pleasure man, Really glad to have you I appreciate it.

Jimmy Chebat:

Thank you everybody for joining us on the ZIZO Effect podcast season two Andrew take it away.

Andrew J. Reimers:

It's game time. It's game time. Wow. It was really interesting to hear Brian's perspective on the importance of workplace culture and the balance between work and personal life. I loved hearing how having a creative outlet like music can positively impact job performance. Brian's story reminded all of us the value of finding harmony between our professional and our personal lives. We found this discussion incredibly insightful and we hope you did too. Remember we release episodes every other week, so stay tuned for more engaging conversations and insights. Get ready, it's game time.

People on this episode

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Andrew Reimers

Host
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Jimmy Chebat

Host